I really like discussions on YouTube - my way!

As the four different endings of Deus Ex: Invisible War draw up quite a good selection of scenarios for the future development of our society, I can't help but to keep arguing with others - on YouTube!

TheCorrupt (1 month ago)
Hm, unfortunately this is the "best" ending...

Karakas4 (3 weeks ago)
Well, such an outcome is only the prediction of an elitist who doesn't believe in common sense and reason among all people. Both history and my own experiences in democracy have made me believe that the introduction and combination of various opinions and ideas of different people had resulted in way better decisions than some more or less clever dictators' (or call it a philosopher ruler's according to Platon) thinking.

Mulluns (3 weeks ago)
IMO, this is the closest thing to a "Happy" or "Good" ending i think is in Invisible War.

Karakas4 (3 weeks ago)
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven? Huh? This is the worst ending of all! It's a simple tyranny in our most sacred dominion, reason and knowledge!
There's no right nor wrong. There are just different views. The more you can combine and include, the better will be the outcome - for everyone and thus in general. Thus, you don't have to patronize people but help them to develop. Dude, that's the basic idea of Enlightment. I just feel like we never really have managed to achieve that goal, also because of such elitist's misbelief.

TheCorrupt (3 weeks ago)
I have to say that i personally don't believe in common sense amongst "ALL" people. Look at our world. For example, people killing each other just because they have a different religion! Where's the commen sense in that? I agree with you! Totally! But of course we never and never will achieve that "goal" because i think its not possible. Like you say "there are just different views". And thats it! You just can't combine all different ideas and opinions!

Karakas4 (3 weeks ago)
I perfectly understand what you mean. But then, not to believe in it is the first step to failure. Now this would have sounded totally pathetic and spiritual to me some years ago, but in the end it's really just about the "enacted normative concepts" we believe in. Homo hominis lupus est? Nobody can either proof nor disprove Hobbes. Same goes with the homo oeconomicus. Is time linear or not? Space endless or limited? We even believe in things we don't want to or are aware of.
In this sense, the idea of common sense and reason is mere belief as well. You might have played the first part of Deus Ex and read the quote of Voltaire at the ending of the Illuminati part: "If there's no God, one has to create him." This quote may seem to fit perfectly not only because it comes from the context of the Illuminati ending of the first part but pretty much reveals the arbitrariness of reality. Personally, I prefer to create a god of common sense and reason instead of quasi proven cynism. And if you refer to all those religious fights around the world? Just think what they fight for! Exactly, beliefs that gives meaning to their lives - as weird or mislead they might seem to you. Actually, the idea of Jihad or the Holy Crusade just derives of such elitist ideas of indoctrinate people. It'll still take ages till this fragmented world will harmonize in beliefs - and even if not its outcoming cosmopolitan views will be bound to respect each others' varieties.

TheCorrupt (3 weeks ago)
I have to say that i personally don't believe in common sense amongst "ALL" people. Look at our world. For example, people killing each other just because they have a different religion! Where's the commen sense in that? I agree with you! Totally! But of course we never and never will achieve that "goal" because i think its not possible. Like you say "there are just different views". And thats it! You just can't combine all different ideas and opinions!

ziilon2206 (2 weeks ago)
i do not care whether it is tyranny or not the people look happy and thats what life is about

Karakas4 (2 weeks ago)
Why don't we all get stoned all day long then? Happiness is like the most euphemistic word ever. But as I said: Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom in Heaven. Thinking never makes you happy. You don't have to read Nietzsche to understand that.

zombieninja666 (1 week ago)
Bah, I think maybe 70 to 90% of humans are meh. At least selfish and somewhat apathetic, if not just plain cruel, and in many cases stupid. I may sound cynical but I'm just basing this off of maybe thousands of people that I've had at least 5 hours of contact with. 5 hours isn't enough to judge the individual, but I suspect my margin of error isn't too great. Because of this, you're idealist ideas are essentially impossible. At least for a few thousand years.. and the odds of society improving from its current state, are, well, astronomical, considering what it is today, and the poor likelyhood of enough people changing that.

I picked the Helios ending the first time, and I imagine that's your favorite, but now I haven't the slightest which one I'd go for..

Karakas4 (1 week ago)
You didn't get my point. It's all about what attitude is prevalent and of course, as long as people keep thinking the same way you do, we'll never get anywhere. Take the Medieval Age as an example: Clerics actually kept the plebs ignorant and in belief to create a stable system. The parallels to this ending are obvious. The humanists and revolutionaries during the Enlightment wanted to carry humanity to a new level of rational reason. It didn't fail because of its idealism but usurpation.

zombieninja666 (2 days ago)
And what kind of attitude is that? Don't get me wrong, I try, I participate in things, I've worked with people, and I preach about a number of things (Most particularily cruelty and selfishness) to the point that people sucking with me is like Gard and nukes (read Tommyknockers). But, see, I've kind of resigned myself to the fact that the most I'm likely to achieve is improving the lives of as many individuals as possible, not doing anything notable for a long term change in society overall.

Comment from godking1212:
"thinking never makes you happy"?
sure it does contemplation of ones own achievements can bring happiness, perhaps not an everlasting happiness but happiness nontheless. although that is a self satisfaction, neglecting the need for material and physical desires.scientifically though, our bodies are simply a make up of matter(O.K more complex but still) thoughts are simply chemical interactions that occur in the brain, therefore emotion is artificial and happiness is an illussion

Karakas4 (5 minutes ago)
You've managed to warp a tautological argument in paradoxical reasoning which doesn't have much to do with the matter anyway. First, to consider emotions as well as thoughts as mere chemical AND electronic (Depends whether you consider the transmitting ions in the cells themselves as chemical or electronic particles.) reactions is the very basis of materialism. But then, materialism is nothing but thoughts, too, and thus contradicting or at least devaluating itself. There's an Indian religion, actually one even Hinduism and thus Buddhism is based on, a religion called Jainism which clearly points out that if any thought you do lies under the shadow of future risk assumptions. How can you be happy about an ingenious idea of yours if you don't stop there but keep on thinking that you might forget it, get retarded or whatever. Guess why Nietzsche called his one work much relating to this problem "Thus Zarathustra spoke"!
Thus, if you stop thinking at your self-satisfying, ingenious idea, you're just a bit less naïve, but still naïve. Henceforth, considering all the risks lying in the future renders really thoughtful people unhappy - even for the present. That's what Nietzsche concludes, that's what Jainism concludes, that's what Buddhism is all about - don't think at all! Guess what Nirvana means, "desolving yourself in nothing"? Doesn't that remind you of an orgasm, that "little death"?
Anyway, the problem isn't any lack of foresight of this idea or the belief that thinking can't make you happy, but the asymmetric concept of risk which is deeply rooted in the termination of the word itself and thus our concept of uncertainty in general: We only see the downside risk, not the upside one. Human beings are risk-averse. That's the whole problem. If one cares about the future, he normally sees problems instead of chances first.